Bilderberg.org

[Garbo]

I personally feel that these worldwide smoking bans which are being forced on business owners everywhere, and which are a direct removal of property rights, are a part of the jigsaw puzzle in which the NWO is taking control. Two sites which relate to this issue are Freedom to Choose and http://www.forces.org/.
Thoughts please?

[CJ]

I`d say that while smoking isn`t good for the smoker and those about, "smoking does not cause cancer"....smoking is only a contributing factor and smoking only became a demond after the first nuclear tests.

While smoking is a problem, its worst effects are felt in later life. This being a generalisation. Most people need a crutch and todays "crutches of choice" (NWO choice), are alcohol, gambling and illegal drugs, with our youth being enticed with fun recreational nightclub/rave feel good at the time...get your brain wrecked with depression...

....these last three, are not only likely to kill you, but they can wreck your life from the start of your habit. This breaks up the family unit from all sides....SMOKING NEVER HAD THIS EFFECT...do you get my drift.

So yes, the PC backlash against smoking is a component of the NWO agenda and while tarring up your lungs with fags is bad, this tar might stop you getting cancer from the new smaller particulates from new fuels being used in our cars today. I say, live life to the max....no safe sex...condoms will not protect you from HIV infection!!

[Garbo]

All good thoughts CJ and thank you. I sort of see a jigsaw puzzle here with smoking bans, trans fat bans, cell phone bans, and yes, even sex toy bans (!) as a part of a larger picture and each little ban as a piece of the puzzle. What will happen when all the pieces are in place, I wonder! And what sort of picture will we see?

[666666666]

Interestingly enough, when researching the history of smoking bans, one finds that the modern smoking bans began in the Third Reich under Adolph Hitler who personally financed a lot of the "research" that went into "proving" Second Hand Smoke was "harmful", thus justifying onerous bans.

He was quoted as saying had it not been for him being a non-smoker he does not think he could serve the German people very well and forced politically correct behaviours to the utmost with regard to not smoking and all other so-called "good health" measures.

Meantime, Churchill and Roosevelt smoked profusely yet lead the charge against and finally defeated him.

As for the sudden resurgence of smoking bans based on Hitler's logic, my slight research indicates that the "science" behind the Second Hand Smoke "threat" is less than scientific and has been called such in various legal settings, major court cases, where it has been challenged on the "science" as well as mutiple amounts of evidence existing showing that there is no real threat at all.

If so and if a stretch of science to call it this and if a continuation of where Hitler left of - then yes, I would opinionate quite honestly that it could be an extension of the New World Order.

I would even go so far out on a limb to postate that given the somewhat benign "goodness" that it seems to extend, to succumb to hating smokers and stamping it out these days, as a "good" thing a "good" citizen should do - given the historical facts and pseudo-scientific inaccuracies that have been used as reasons, or excuses maybe, to propagate this now world-wide campaign, would even make me wonder that in a way - it could be the ULTIMATE and MOST DECEIVING campaign of all - namely, by doing so, by calling upon the order of purity of health above all else, demanding loyalty to that, which is identical to one of Hitler's tactics - it creates a situation where-in the individual is not willing to say "no" to such an idea and thus propagates it on to the next individual and so on - until it reaches the point where it becomes "normal" - something someone NEVER talks back to authority on, since from authority is where it derived and upon no truly solid scientific basis to begin with - merely because "someone said so" - like that.

Only at that point, then the New World Order disciples actually have won - because by denying that anything not considered "healthy", whether it is or is not, being beside the point - but by refusing to "question" what they have been "told" and by continuing to campaign for something that very well may be an extreme lie and manipulation - then the rest of the dictates all fall into line, like dominoes.

I mean one can hardly say free this person here while letting this other person be un-free then at the next breath say one is anti-NWO. It is incoherent and hypocrisy and not a winning strategy.

So it would serve as the ultimate divisive tool, once implemented as the "new normal" way of thinking.

It is akin to that saying about I may not like what you say but will fight for your right to say so.

In the New World Order of thinking, it would be twisted to mean I may not like that you smoke and will fight to make sure you never are allowed to do so - while at the same time mouthing out against other things of greater importance going on, such as unjust wars perhaps - but as such, am already in a bind for having served notice to the masters that I am beholding to their initial lie, all along, and thus under their control.

The problem with the prejudice being induced at this moment is once it grabs hold, it would be difficult to shake and could serve a self-defeating purpose to latch on to it as mantra.

Other scant research also indicates that Big Pharma is behind most of this, splurging hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in "research" grants (giveaways) and the good it does their anti-smoking products such as nicotine and anti-depressants, the like - and the media, suffering for advertising revenue, has renounced any journalistic integrity and would never rebuke anything told to say by the ones footing the advertising revenue bills they are earning, for speaking the "truth" - as told to them.

That then leads to other "truths", it all wrapped up and sold to the public, more akin to propaganda than news.

Even the World Health Organization branch of the United Nations did extensive Second Hand Smoke research and firmly stated that there was no such harm to be worried about and that bans were unnecessary, but then pharmaceutical giants appear to have infiltrated the W.H.O. and with handouts granted, the W.H.O. suddenly buried their extensive research showing no harm from Second Hand Smoke and instead simply dictated out of the blue, by "authority", that it was now considered harmful - dictate - no further questioning required (though the press did at one time dig up this fact, then managed to lose it too, once ad revenues needed feeding perhaps).

Thankfully I do not smoke to be caught up in what is playing out in full view, yet is deceptively, cleverly shielded from public scrutiny; but if one investigates closely enough, there is certainly some truth to this idea that the smoking bans being forced world-wide and suddenly are very much in line with the reasoning behind why Hitler personally saw to the same under his rule.

And history DOES bear that out too. It is not fiction, but true, what he did and what it accomplished for him. It was the precursor of the terrible things that followed after.

[Garbo]

What a well- thought-out answer, 666666666. You pointed out so many things I hadn't thought of, such as the smokers, like Churchill winning the war in the last century, and how the media propagates the dangerous second hand smoke theory with no evidence at all to back it up, just parroting what they are told to say.
I, too, have done some research on bans since we live in a ban-happy world these days, and have discovered another facet of bans which is certainly not common knowledge, and that is the fact that many, many small businesses (mom and pops) go under or close completely, after a smoking ban is implemented, thereby leaving only the big corporate restaurant chains to grab all the customers. Needless to say, putting people out of business is detrimental to our nation, our economy, and our mental health as a whole.
As you stated, I too, believe it is the Ultimate Deception.

[666666666]

By driving out the small businesses then total gentrification can occur and once that is complete there will no longer be much of a need for smaller or family owned enterprise as the larger groups of money in the world can own and operate the lot and force everyone into wage slavery, getting rid of the middle class that stands in their way.

On most of the continents these days you hear people rage over the loss of the middle class and the ever growing divide between those at the top and then everyone else, at the bottom.

By abscounding everyone's private property rights under the guise of public health, again "healthiness" not even the issue in this point of the matter, then they are in effect shutting down businesses and changing the very core notion of "private property", the same as was taken private homes for a wealthier class of investors on the Eastern Coast of the U.S. recently and then ruled "constitutional" by the U.S. Supreme Court.

It is almost akin to the taking of land from peasants in the 1600s in Britain that caused a huge outflow of emigrants and destroyed classes of people, the same major type of event.

At the rate they are going, through their use of smoke bans, they may manage to get rid of all the small town coffee shops and replace them all with Starbucks - which of course profits the upper most echelons and keeps competition from the peasants forced out of the picture.

It is already happening as I have read about such things too, in towns across Canada and Europe and in the United States, areas where small town pubs and coffee shops are gone by the thousands per country in some cases, to be replaced by major chains and the profit and control too, effectively going back up to the upper tiers of society.

Sometimes I wonder if it is just the money or if it is the "control" that may be the motivating factor among these more powerful money-lords, which after a while they do say the power itself is the alluring drug, not the money.

I am certain those at the top have very much a finger in the till with regard to the smoke bans and this isn't just something coincidental.

I think its is perilous to simply ignore the phenomenon, which is easy to do since it evokes anti-smoking prejudice in most persns, but invoke common reasoning to it I would say is best, given the facts as I have seen them thus far too, though just in meager research at this point.

[831]

Hi All.

All the info you have all given is very interesting. There is however one part of this situation that does tend to bother me some what. That is, the amount of tax revenue that all these Governments get from the Taxation of all Tobacco products.

If you think about this money, it is a lot of money, a great deal of money. Now all that money is going to dry up when they finally pull off what they are doing with cigarettes & the like. They are going to have to find a why of replacing that revenue from some where.

So as well as all that they are doing & that we should be watching them, I also think that we should be watching where they are going to get this extra revenue from. I know that in the UK the Taxation on a packet of 20 Cigarettes is at least £3.50, as packets are now well over £5 a packet. Now when you consider how many people buy a packet of 20 a day. That constitutes to an awful lot of cash, that all these Governments will be loosing.

So they have to replace it from some where, where is all that money going to come from. So I think we should also be watching that side of it as well. Just a few thoughts on this matter?

God Bless you all
831

[Garbo]

This thread gets more and more interesting every day! So many educated and valuable comments. In response to 831's comment about what will happen when the considerable taxes on tobacco products dry up, a scary thought occurred to me, ie: suppose the "agenda" includes raising property taxes so high that nobody can afford to own their own home anymore? This would be in keeping with the attack on property rights, I think. Slowly, (or maybe quickly), the disappearing middle class would have to forego property ownership and thereby it could be promptly seized by eminent domain (or whatever) and eventually all land would be owned by a small percentage of the rich and powerful. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but indeed it is something to think about.

[666666666]

I am doing a quick update to what I posted earlier while it is still on my mind.

First off, I found the exact quote by Adolph Hitler I referred to the other day, which is:


"I am convinced that if I had been a smoker, I never would have been able to bear the cares and anxieties which have been a burden to me for so long. Perhaps the German people owe its salvation to that fact."

- Adolf Hitler 1942


So that is historical fact and can be found in various reference sources.

The other is the aforementioned websites someone else spoke about, I have located them and they are:


http://www.forces.org


and


http://www.freedom2choose.co.uk


The Forces organisation has been around for over a decade and has international presence and experience in fighting this new sort of politically-correct Fascism.

The Freedom2choose Society is centred here in the U.K.

It appears to be a year or less old and apparently has several lawsuits already filed against the English government with regard to the Second Hand Smoking Scandal seeming to be borne out of lies and corruption among government officials and the major Pharmaceutical Industry players.

Both make for interesting reading and I thank you for cluing me in to their existence.

Apparently there does seem to be some connections between this sudden intense world-wide upheaval in the area of tobacco control and some rather obvious financial and power-sharing connections going on among politicans and the Pharmaceutical Giants - and more than likely with a Bilderberg finger touching upon these relationships too.

Given the taxation issue, one can only guess where the lost revenues must come from and yes, pushing that onto the homeowners through increased property taxes could be yet another way of creating massive foreclosure in the future with only the highest of the high being permitted to own land, the common classes again forced down to the bottom of the barrel.

So thank you for that bit of information and I will read further into it.

Where there is smoke there is fire; or in this case perhaps better said, where there is NO smoke there may be an intense fire brewing under the heated pot in front of all our noses but distracted from our attention by a savvy Bilderberg controlled media.

[bip bip]

Because the phase out of these taxes on tobacco and oil ( reffering to health and pollution) states can collapse,because without money they can't
govern and it is the goal!

[666666666]

So in essence you are suggesting that by propagandizing, in fact actually using some trumped up lies about Second Hand Smoke not based on actual science and perhaps now something similar, along the same lines, in regard to Global Warming to restrict or ration out automobile and airplane usage; that in fact would have enough fiscal impact on all individual governments to eventually falter under the weight of their own expenses, not enough coming in by then to allow them to continue.

That would also fit in with the concept of being "anti-tobacco" and "pro-environmental", two movements which are said to be "good" by their nature, by the media - that by being "good", like the Anti-Christ who is defined as representing "goodness" as was the Pied-Piper, it is from following devoutly to this "goodness" from whence the terrible Final Solution will finally spring forth - meaning no more governments except for that enforced from the top of the chain, single world control through the U.N., W.H.O, World Bank, etc.

That also means that by supporting "anti-tobacco" and "pro-environmental" and similar Politically Correct brigades of the current times, one may be in fact aiding and abetting the formation of the New World Order and not even realizing it.

That is your implication though and a logical conclusion, that we are slitting our own throats following the Politically Correct movement to a tee and yet with the next generations, as they are indoctrinated not to think but told how to think and to support such things vehemently without question, we will in fact be unable to stop heading down this course we are apparently already on.

Especially alarming though are the facts being ignored, actual facts of science that go against the notion of Second Hand Smoke harm and that of Global Warming, with scientists advocating no Global Warming necessarily proven having received death threats recently - but with certain obvious facts readily available, by continuing to ignore these facts in lieu of following after Fairy Tales as published consistently, propaganda on a daily basis in the controlled media, we may be failing to utilize the best defense there is, simply by pointing out these facts to the press and others around us on a regular basis - especially about these two subject areas for which the actual science repeatedly does not point out the scare claims being made in the press.

They can only enforce any politically and economically motivated fantasies about Second Hand Smoke and Global Warming on a consistent basis through unstoppable propaganda campaigns only, only if people continue to "believe" in them.

But if people used logic based on fact and science, had an "enlightenment" so to speak, then the more fantasy based "belief" system being engendered would quickly fall apart and the power for them to govern would simply melt away like the Wicked Witch in the Wizard of Oz, into a puddle of ooze.

[bip bip]

If governements were worried about health,security and ecology they dont
make war.War is a wastage of energy,a threat for health and security!
Globalists want the collapse of nations to control all the world.
You can see the movie "equilibrium"?

[Garbo]

http://www.smokersclub.com/banloss3.htm

In my research, I came across this ban loss page(s) at The Smokers Club. It lists hundreds and hundreds of places that have closed (by State) due to smoking bans. This is truly ghastly. It also seems that fighting these bans is next to impossible, although Forces is doing a great job of fighting back with it's new Multi Media Project soon to be implemented.

Has anybody seen the video "The Global Warming Swindle"? It's great. Will try to link it.

What is "equalibrium"?

[bip bip]

Equilibrium is a movie, you can find it on eMule.
It is the story of totalitarian State that believes working in the interest of
Humanity with a laboratory that makes pills against violence.
Perfect World is a totalitarian dream.

[Garbo]

Have ordered "Equalibrium" from Amazon.com and thank you for posting that movie as I had never heard of it. Here is the link to "The Global Warming Swindle", for those who haven't seen it. Watch it quick before somebody pulls it off! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2332531355859226455&q=global+warming+swindle